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Supplements: Does the Truth Really Matter?
Apparently Not!
Today - a brief blog entry. This is because a fact is a fact. Here are two facts.
1. All the glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, MSM, joint pills, etc that you are taking are helping only one person- the person who owns the company that sells you this nonsense. Stop it now. Maybe one day, solid research will lead us to solutions in this important area of neutraceuticals but this is not that day.
I am sure that herbal medicine and nutrition is an untapped resource of tremendous help to all arthritis sufferers but what is on the market - all of it - is a waste of your money and a waste of shelf space on pharmacy stores. Just don't buy it. Just don't use it. Demand that good research is performed.
2. The joint viscosupplementation injections- hyaluronic acid which is marketed under multiple names (Synvisc, Hyalgan, Orthovisc, Euflexxa) does help some patients but not as many as whoever is injecting you is probably claiming.
If your arthritis is bone-on-bone then the injections are totally worthless. Some doctors effectively run "injection clinics". They should be shut down. Some give it and within 6 months do a knee replacement - this is a money making scam.
Don't get me wrong - there are clear "responders" to this treatment. There is extraordinarily important work in this area. Again - we are not at the day where the "joint grease" solution is anything close to a solution. In early arthritis there is probably a role. The real studies (ones not supported by industry) are sketchy on this. Just be careful about the doctors who inject people in a line that looks like new marine recruits getting their hair cut.
...more later
Dr. K.
BTW- I expect there may be just a few comments here- bring 'em on.
Related Topics: Exercise Good for Early Knee Osteoarthritis, Manage Your Osteoarthritis
Today - a brief blog entry. This is because a fact is a fact. Here are two facts.
1. All the glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, MSM, joint pills, etc that you are taking are helping only one person- the person who owns the company that sells you this nonsense. Stop it now. Maybe one day, solid research will lead us to solutions in this important area of neutraceuticals but this is not that day.
I am sure that herbal medicine and nutrition is an untapped resource of tremendous help to all arthritis sufferers but what is on the market - all of it - is a waste of your money and a waste of shelf space on pharmacy stores. Just don't buy it. Just don't use it. Demand that good research is performed.
2. The joint viscosupplementation injections- hyaluronic acid which is marketed under multiple names (Synvisc, Hyalgan, Orthovisc, Euflexxa) does help some patients but not as many as whoever is injecting you is probably claiming.
If your arthritis is bone-on-bone then the injections are totally worthless. Some doctors effectively run "injection clinics". They should be shut down. Some give it and within 6 months do a knee replacement - this is a money making scam.
Don't get me wrong - there are clear "responders" to this treatment. There is extraordinarily important work in this area. Again - we are not at the day where the "joint grease" solution is anything close to a solution. In early arthritis there is probably a role. The real studies (ones not supported by industry) are sketchy on this. Just be careful about the doctors who inject people in a line that looks like new marine recruits getting their hair cut.
...more later
Dr. K.
BTW- I expect there may be just a few comments here- bring 'em on.
Related Topics: Exercise Good for Early Knee Osteoarthritis, Manage Your Osteoarthritis
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103 Comments:
AMEN!!! To all of it!!!! Finally the truth comes out. I used that stuff (Glucosamine and Chondroitin) for over a year at big doses and never had any success with it. I also had synvisc shots in my right knee which was supposed to be medium arthritis in it and it didn't do anything for me. I now have bone on bone in both knees and am looking for total knee replacements in both knees within the coming year. I'm putting it off as long as I can as I'm only 46. I have tried herbal remedies for alot of my arthritis and nothing has worked. I have a father-in-law that kept telling my husband to use this and that to treat my arthritis and I told my husband that I would continue to treat it conventionally until I needed surgery to fix it and then I could walk and exercise and help to preserve what little joints that don't have arthritis in them. But, thanks, Dr. K, for the truth. Especially since the natural drugs aren't regulated by the FDA and alot of the time can interfere with your prescriptions that you are taking. Hurrah for your honesty!!! Linda
Wow, you just described me perfectly with the synvisc information..You forgot one thing though. Those shots hurt like heck! It would certainly have been worth it IF they had worked but they did not. Following them I had TKA. I had bone on bone for years with prior medial meniscetomy (sp) and double chondroplasty. Synvisc is a joke!
I'm not too sure that chondroplasty is a good surgery either for arthritis! It made me worse and my OA progressed really quick after having it.
Madison
Admin Note:
The above comments were originally posted and inadvertently deleted. These are reposts of the originals.
Apologies for the error,
WebMD Blog Admin
Well, I have to report that recently I tried a new topical gel that has Glucosamine and Chondroitin in it on my knee that I have RA in and my pain was immediately releaved for several hours. I was very happily suprised by the relief I achieved.
It was a sample sent to me by a Pharmacuetical Company in Canada. I wrote them back and said I would absolutely purchase this product when it came on the market!
I am having THR in a few days and I plan on trying it on my hip also to see if it helps with the pain. It may or may not but it did help my knee which showed a golf ball size white spot on my x-ray of arthritis.
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about supplements to treat arthritis. Articles right here on WebMD say that there is some clinical evidence to support some supplements, including Glucosamine (linked below). I’ve heard others say that none of it is worthwhile, but my doctor even said, “I wish I started taking Glucosamine 10 years ago.”
As someone who was just diagnosed with arthritis in the wrist from overuse, at just 30, I want to do everything I can to prevent further damage and relieve the pain. With so much dissonance, what should I believe?
Arthritis Diet Claims: Fact or Fiction
Glucosamine and chondroitin
Everyone is different. I started glucosmine and chondroitin several years ago and about seven years ago, my doctor started with Hylagan shots every six months. Both relieved my knee pain tremendously until last November when the doctor said it was time for a new knee. Those pills and shots postponed the surgery for six years! I will always advise for both. I am 76 years old. early
HELLO I HAVE OA AND I AM 38 I HAVE IT FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS NOW AND MY DOCTOR STILL WON'T DO ANY THING FOR THE PAIN BUT GIVE ME A SHOT OR PILLS AND I HAVE BONE ON BONE WHERE I CAN HERE IT GOING CRUSH AND FELL IT TO AND RIGHT NOW I AM IN SO MUCH PAIN THAT WHEN I STAND UP I CAN FEEL MY KNEE GIVING OUT ON ME AND SOMETIMES IT WILL BUKLE ON ME AND I FALL DOWN FROM IT HELP ME PLEASE THANK U
I'm glad you told patients what my doctor's wouldn't. They make a 45 y/o in pain, wait until they are 60 to be considered a "candidate" for surgery, thus completely taking aware patient autonomy. I always felt that supplements & injections were quick money makers with false promises.
This article sums up my current dilemma. i am 27, i was diagnosed with this disease about 22 years ago. and no, it was not juvanile due to the progression. i was moved to arizona at that time. after a few years of hospitalization and treatment, and a lot of cods liver oil, i was fortunate enough to go into a remission. 12 years ago unfortunate circumstances brought me back to new york. the first few years were fine. then i began having symptoms again. when i was about 20 i decided to see a rheumatologist, however i was uninsured. it was at that point that i got a clear picture of the cost of health care. if you dont have insurance they dont want to be bothered. and its worse if you do because then they subject you to unnecessary testing and treatments. all in the name of a buck. and i also believe that the " natural cures " are just another profit turning scam. there in lies the dilemma. i now have insurance, but have lost my faith in doctors. what now?
I'm a 46 yrs. old, male, i have arthritis in my right knee. and lots of pain, but only if i walk on it alot, stand for long period's of time, but it really hurts when i keep it bend to long, around 1/2 hr., to an hour,or more.I take naproxen 500 mgs. but don't like taking all these drug's, considering i'm a recovering alcoholic. plus i also have major pain in my right foot,the big joint that hooks to my big toe. do u think i may need knee replacment, and can they repair or replace a joint in someone's foot.
My husband and I are 60 & 62.
It's hard for people to believe our age, our health, our activity level, and our healthy looks. We have taken food supplements for 30 years with nothing but great results. It would be great if we could all eat fresh picked fruit and veggies but by the time they reach our homes they have lost many of their nutrients. Food supplements fill the gap. I have found that many physicians are recognizing their benefits as an aid to a healthy diet. I understand nutrition education is very minimal in medical education, but I praise God for physicians who have relied on their on studies in the area of nutrition. These are the physicians who deserve our attention, and there are more out there every day.
To the anonymous who asked about the foot joints: I have had several foot surgeries. I started with severe Osteoarthritis of the talo-navicular joint. I now have the talonavicular joint, the calcaneous, subtalor, navicular and the cuniform joints all fused. They cannot be replaced, they have to be fused if they have arthritis in them and they are causing alot of pain in them. But, in my experience, make sure you have alot of pain in them and that it is impairing your ability to walk because you may be left with some residual pain and a little limping as I have. I don't know if this happens to everyone but it is happening to me. I am recovering right now from my last surgery which was a fix from last year. I only have 4 good joints left in my right foot. Once you start fusing joints it seems to have the domino effect. The big toe joint they also fuse but I have heard that a Podiatrist has invented a new implant that can be put in which retains the full use of the joint so it doesn't have to be fused. When a joint is fused you lose all function of that joint. If the pain is bad enough I would go ahead and have it fused. It is a simple enough surgery and I don't think the recovery time is that bad for the big toe joint. My foot surgery, on the other hand, is horrendous. I was in the hospital 2 days, in a hospital bed at home non-weight bearing 7 weeks, partial weight bearing still in a hospital bed at home 4 more weeks, then went to a cam boot for another 4 weeks which is where I'm at now and the pain is horrendous. Plus my knees are bone on bone. If you have any more questions on feet email me at elrkenn@osage.net. Linda
I must totally disagree re: the glucosamine - chondroitin pills.
I have had tremendous success with them and I am a major sufferer of RA. I am a waiter in a huge hotel and run (and squat and bend) about 30 miles a week in my job. The difference between the time I did not use the G. C. and when I started is like night and day in as far as mobility and flexibility. It does NOT relive the pain necessarily but it definitely makes me more adjel and flexible!! Pharmaceutical companies have been busted lately for hireling laboratories to test alternative medicines because they've been PAYING off the labs and certain scientists to get the negative results that they want. So take heed!! The New York Times had a huge exposé on this recently
P.S. on Glucosamine and Chondroitin
It doesn't work unless you take it before physical activity as it is literaly pumped into your joints as you move.
Dear Dr. Kirschenbaum,
Please mention to your colleges that there are many, many thousands of arthritis sufferors with Ankylosing Spondylitis who need and want more information about their condition posted on WebMD. A Blog from a physician who is familiar with or specializes in Ankylosing Spondylitis would be outstandingly helpful to us. In a week I will search for this disease again within WebMD and, hopefully will find something new, current, and helpful.
Thanks in advance for anything you might do for those of us who suffer so while appearing to be completely healthy.
Sincerely,
MsB
After 20 years of assorted treatments for her RA, my wife has recently started feeling much better. Her doctor ordered a complete blood workup and a full set of x-rays. The result of all these diagnostic tests is that she no longer has RA. Her doctor used the term "the RA burned itself out". Question: Is there such a thing as RA going into remission, does it in fact "burn itself out"?
Thanks.
Please add me to the growing list of folk who have tried every listed remedy I could find for relief from back and leg pain. I eventually had two disc surgeries and wear air casts for chronic leg pain. No natural remedy I have tried has helped any of my symptoms and I totally agree with Dr. K. that only the manufacturer has benefited. I now use gentle exercise in the pool and good old fashioned ice packs for pain relief. These actually help.
I've done it all-glucosamine, synvisc, etc. When you have Hypermobile EDS, there is no remedy that works other than joint replacements.
My insurance company insisted that I have the synvisc injections before approving surgery. The extra time that took before surgery was enough to dislocate my shoulder by using crutches since I couldn't walk because of knee pain. So I ended up having a shoulder replacement as well.
I have the right TKR scheduled for August, so I am well on my way to becoming a truly bionic woman-two thumb joint replacements,left knee and shoulder, and now right knee.
What I really need is a total spine replacement! Are they in the works?
I think Glucosamine + Chondroitin can help if started at the onset of joint pain. I have been taking it faithfully for 10 years or so, after experiencing shoulder pain if I raised my arm 75-80 degrees. I've always done rough work around a farm, with horses, remodeling my home (I'm female). I haven't had pain in that shoulder for years, although I also try to be easier on my joints at 52. So GC has it's benefits in my opinion especially if started early.
I have experience tremendous relief from taking high doses of SAMe (1600mg/day), Cetyl Myristolete & MSM. I also take fish oil in an enteric capsule (3-4000 mg/day).
I currently take Celabrex & had excellant results with Bextra.
I use Hydrocodone & Diazapam. I know that the supplements are working due to the reduced need for pain relief Rx
Perhaps Dr K has good intentions, but his categorical denouncement of supplements ignores the many variables that affect human response to pain and disease, in my opinion. Categorical exclusion of all supplements is typical of certain doctors who reject any therapies except their own mode of therapy, usually drug and surgery-focused.
I'm a 60-yr old victim of Class II spondylolisthesis and advanced osteo-arthritis. Cox inhibitors used to help me but after a heart attack and a stent I now rely upon Ultram and glucosamine-chondroitin. The latter supplements have increased my mobility and reduced my pain, as I have proven to myself by removing the supplements then returning them to my diet.
Simple, black and white perceptions of problems and solutions are tempting, but never the whole truth, in my opinion. Beware of people who make such simplistic pronouncements, say I.
I believe, as some studies suggest, that Glucosamine and Chondroitin may not relieve all the pain but perhaps they keep the joint from grinding down any further. I feel G&C do help with my OA pain. And, I do not believe that anyone can make a blanket statement that all supplements are bad. Some things work for some people and other things work for other people.
I am a 70 year old female. Three years ago I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my lower back. I spent about 6 months unable to get around and in intense pain. I was on Bextra and heavy duty pain medication. I decided to try some alternative supplements. Now 3 years later, I take no pain medication and am abe to mow my own lawn and do some gardening. I take a capsule of Glucosamine Sulfate (plus other ingredients) twice a day along with Flaxseed Oil. I also take Boswellia Serrata (for inflamation) and Alpha Lipoic Acid. If my routine is upset and I miss a day or two, I am in pain and it takes about 2 days back on schedule to get the pain reduced again. I find many supplements to be very helpful and would not give them up. The doctors had me in a wheel chair and ready for the Rest Home.
You stated all of the remedies that don't work, but you had no suggestions for what might help with the progression and pain of osteoarthritis. What do you recommend to your patients?
Hello "Dr.K",
Have you experienced the pain of your patients? Have you actually looked into the research surrounding all supplements? I'm sure you realize that there is not nearly as much money funding natural supplement research as the pharmaceutical industry has! I'm sure you are also aware that no one actually knows the full mechanism of action (i.e. "how it works") of one of the most commonly used OTC painkillers, acetaminophen (Tylenol). I help patients suffering from pain using natural remedies (as well as acupuncture) on a daily basis. They experience relief, healing, and recovery. They don't suffer the side effects of pharmaceuticals. The Hippocratic Oath says "Do no harm". Not all supplements are created equal (nor are all doctors). I suggest people do their own research, talk to people in the know (i.e. qualified practitioners who know what they are talking about), and don't expect miracles (natural supplements take time).
Dr.M, Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine
Yes, I really would like to know what would be the best type of pain reliever for myself. I was diagnosed with OA when they found my Carpal Tunnel. I have already had the surgery on my right hand and I haven't decided to let them do my left hand yet. The surgery was around two and a half years ago and now my right hand is right back to where it began only a little worse than before. The pain and the stiffness is really taking its toll on me. I am a 49 year old assembly worker with no releif in sight. I have tried herbal remedies,wearing copper braclets with magnets, ultasound and electrode therapy through a chiroprator. Nothing is working for me. I can't take anti inflammatory drugs due to the 3 different kinds of blood pressure pills I'm on. I'm at my wits end. The pain is starting to get little by litte harder to bare. I am honestly considering being a guina pig for anyone who thinks they can help me. I NEED MY HANDS!
there is acompany that has cell ready supplemation and within a minute it gets there and proven, just ask.
At my knee doc's suggestion, I started glucosamine (not with chondroitin) a few years ago and it has helped enough that I will continue with it. I use a house brand.
I had knee and hip pain which started about 3 years ago. I started using "The Arthitis Cure" recommended doses of glucosame and chonroitin. The pain went away. I am 66 years of age. My sister is a retired RN age 76. She had the same good experience and recommended the book to me. Her doctors recommended knee replacement surgery 6 years ago. She has not had the surgery and her pain is greatly decreased. I think we have to much knee, hip, and back surgery when supplements can alieviate the problem and better our quality of life. More double-blind studies should be done.
I am 72 years old, play golf, bicycle ride and take steps two at a time. I have been taking 1500mg of glucosamine daily for about 8 years. My 'RA' is minimal.
Not all Glucosamine is the same. There is a patented Supplement that contains Glucosamine HCl instead of Glucosamine Sodium. It also has a blend of bromelain, ginger and green tea extract. Glucosamine HCl will actually rebuild the cartilage.
Not all supplements are proven so we must be so careful - many are throwing our money away, but the problem is our pain is so great we will try anything.
Not all doctors do their job. They have a process they recommend to every patient. We are not all the same. Different types of arthritis must be treated differently. I am so thankful my doctor did a complete workup and found out what needed to be treated.
I agree most of those glucosamine, etc are no good. been there, done that. I have severe DDD in my cervical and lumbar spine. I haven't worked in over a year. I had a small accident at work and felt something "pop" or "give way" on my right side (back). MRI shows slight nerve root impingement but nothing (according to doctor)that needs to be operated on. I can't stand for any length of time more than two minutes, can't sit for longer than 20 minutes or so. doctor just put me on 2mg Dilaudid. I try to take only when I have to go out or if I'm having a particularly bad day. Am I doing right, am I on a proper medication. I also take Arthrotec 75 mg twice a day. Thanks. Duffy
I recommended glucosamine/chondroitin to a friend who had a sluggist old dalmation dog -- with that being the only change she made - her dog is running around now like a dog half her age... Could you explain that?
I admit I don't have RA and don't take these supplements. But it makes me a little suspicious whenever a doctor on WebMD is slamming supplements. At the worst, these supplements may not help you. At the best, they will do the trick safely without side effects. Supplements are based on foods and other sources of nutrients we're supposed to be getting from nature but can't because of our horrible food supply and lifestyles. I would rather do something that's "natural" than take a prescription any day. "Good research" is a joke if you really know what goes on to promote, approve, and make money off of prescription drugs. If you don't get help from supplements and use a prescription, that's your choice and I hope it helps you. But when a doctor demands that people stop using supplements and "wasting their money" on them, I think "I am sure he would rather have us spend money on pharmaceuticals that can benefit him and his buddies." Pharmaceutical companies are probably the most profitable in the world, more than oil companies.
wow!if this isn't confusing.I'm 30 and have been diagnosed with RA 3 yrs ago.I really refused to let any disease take over my life but i'm not ibnorant of the fact that you have to treat your problem.I've used celebrex,had a few injections but just for 3 mths.then i stopped taking all med for another 6mths.Then i started with prednisolone along with glucosomine C,fish oils,calcium,folic acid, and regular multivitamin.I'm just fine now and i stopped taking all those tests.i think supplements really helped but also with my mind cause i refused to let anyone tell me that i will have to re-adjust my lifestyle just so that some disease can take over.
That's good news coming from a professional but it will be good for the doc to tell patients what he really recommend for this severe type of pain.Only those who actually live through this knows the feeling,even the docs don't know how it actually feels.any thing we can try we will and whoever benefits from our money doesn't really matter,all we want is for our pain to be relieved.So,my dear doctor,please give some suggestions,surely you don't want us to stop using what we have and live in pain.
I have had OA for 17yrs;I am now 47.I have been taking glucosamine & chondroitin for at least 10yrs.I still have pain,but a definite improvement in pain and ROM.My husband takes it also & the times when we ran out of it we both noticed a huge increase in pain and loss of mobility.I researched it a bit before ever taking it and what I found out made me try it.You need to take enough of it long enough for it to work..1500mg daily in divided doses. and possibly reduce to a 750mg a day after 6-8 weeks.It is only useful in OA,and only for certain joints such as hands, hips and knees, which is why it doesn't help my spine pain or my husband's shoulder pain.Consumer reports has studied it and found it effective in OA, and they were surprised to see the same effects and quality even in the non"name" brands. The Arthritis Foundation also recommends the glucosamine, but not the MSM. Nobody seems to have enough proof of the effectiveness of chondroitin,(they haven't found it to be bad for you either) but I take it anyway since it's in the glucosamine pills I buy.And, you can't take it if you are allergic to shellfish.
These supplements do not interfere with presription meds.I recommend anyone that wants to know more, to go to the Arthritis Foundation's website, and read their knowledge base.
You can say what you will, but I take it for OA in my knees and can definitely tell a difference. I also give it to my dog, who was not able to climb the steps of our deck, but now flies off the deck like Mighty Dog.
HI I Could not use the gluucosaminhe and chondroitin as I am alergic to shell fish.However, I have 100% arthritis not only in my knees bur all over in my neck etc.
I have been in 22 accidents so I have other problems to. I am 100% for supplements. MY worst accident was when I fell down 51/2 ft on a streel grate. they said I wouldn't walk I never belived in takeing much medications.because at the age of 10 I had my appendics burst inseide and was to late to operate. My mothe hused me from an old book she had I was the only one at that time to live. In 1985 after my other accident they wanted to do knee surgery and wire my jaw I couldn't eat much for 4 monthe but I with stood it studied every book out on natural treatment. I take 23 supplement I am still walking. I have some pain I do not use no medications for my arthritis good thing to with all the problems they caused and were taken of the market. I will be 69 years old in a less then a month, and now one can believe it. Supplements work for arthitis for the heart etc but youi have to study now your body which ones to take and take them right I come into contact with alot of ones tha did not or did not know which ones effected thier medication sometimes you have to take some.I have pain but I am happy to be alive and able to enjoy my children, grandchildren and great grandchild. after a time you pain talorants gets high. I also use self help tapes and am a christian. Prayer helps also. You all have a great day and beofre you get surgery I would advice to sudy all you can to see which is the best learn your body. The library has a good sourse of books. also buy some and study and find a docotor that will work with you. What's more important than you quality of life.
P.S. I'm a poor speller. bye now have a great day
Amazing how another MD slams natural supplementation while his fellow MDs perscribed Vioxx, Bextra, and Celebrex for millions in cash and free lunch from the drug reps.... You guys are amazing... I have benefitted from Glucosamine and Chondroiton after taking Vioxx for months.. Until my Blood pressure became chronically high..
JC
The hubby is in bad pain if he doesn't take his Clucosamine and Chondroitin,he will say go buy me some more i can't take this pain,after you have been on it awhile doing the recommended dosages you can cut back to the one a day for maintenance and do fine.
I am a 70 year old female and i want to disagree with you regarding Glucosamine and chondriton. It has helped me trememdously over the last 10 years and my dr. is the one that told me to start on it and keep taking it... I also have found a wonderful juice from the mangosteen fruit called Xango that has helped me become pain free from inflammation and other problems. Everyone is different but when you take the over the counter meds. or prescribed drugs there is ALWAYS a price to pay as they all have bad side affects. I have a kidney disease and can not take that stuff and I am thankful now that i didn't and learned the natural way... Please don't negate suppliments. Sandy
Nutrition and weight control play a huge role in joint/immune health. Eat whole natural foods. Drink water. Exercise. Take the supplements that work for you - each person's body is different from the other's and each one's chemistry is different too. What works for one will not necessarily work for the other and each will have to experiment to find the right combination for themselves. Eat well to be well!
bjd
I also took glucosamine/chondroitin along with prescription meds for years - gotit at my local Walgreens. The pain got so severe I couldn't even think properly.
A friend told me what her brother took from a lab in Utah. I got their number and they sent me a weeks worth. It was a life saver. The pain was lessened considerably! Their glucosamine product has another ingredient in it, and it isn't' like the pills I had taken before.
Of course I still have arthritis very bad, but I can deal with the pain better. I saw patients after they had knee surgery and that looked horrible. I still may have to have it, but I dread it. Good luck to all.
Dr, you could not be more correct. Finally someone other than Dr. West Conner from www.rxcostcutters.com is telling it like it is. I urge you to visit his site and read his newsletters.
im taking vitamins & gluco/chrond and i still have pain in my arms from my wrists to my elbows. sometimes it hurts so much i cant sleep. i was taking a cholesterol med but quit because i had no strength to open a bottle or write. my doctor says i have arthritis but continues to give me chloest meds which dont agree with me. i just want help[ with the pain and then ill work on the high cholest
im taking vitamins & gluco/chrond and i still have pain in my arms from my wrists to my elbows. sometimes it hurts so much i cant sleep. i was taking a cholesterol med but quit because i had no strength to open a bottle or write. my doctor says i have arthritis but continues to give me chloest meds which dont agree with me. i just want help[ with the pain and then ill work on the high cholest
I read somewhere that Glucosamine will interfer with drugs like actos used to control diabetes. Is that true?
I have had OA since I was 27 in my ankle from an injury I suffered in High School (I am now 47). There used to be some nights when the pain was so bad that I could hardly sleep without the aid of Ibuprofen and later Naproxen. Since I started using Glucosamine, MSM, and Chondroitin, the pain has eased up significantly. I will say that I am careful about the supplements I buy and I have done research into the market. Now I rarely use anti-inflammatory drugs and I have a normal range of motion and activity. I might also add that the former supplements (Glucosamine, MSM, Chondroitin)have been used extensively in the Horse industry for years. I have seen positive effect on many an old horse. I think your are right to encourage more research, but wrong to discourage people all together from using these supplements. Any relief from pain is welcome and there are too many side effects from RX drugs. I say if it works...use it!
Hey everybody,let's start at the beginning,with how many Doc's does it take to even find your diagnosis! It sounds like a joke to me.Let me refer you to another doc.5 doc's later I'm still strugling with pain.I have a BIG Bag of med's I tried and made me sicker and I end up throwing them in the ever so growing bag.What works for one may not work for another.I mean where does it end. When your broke and digusted then become depressed,Oh Oh time for another kind of med.To me it's such a BIG set up,scam, call it what you will,we all fall into it why! We all want the same answer Be strong people,I try to be everyday.I'm 47 and I love my job although I'm on my aching feet all day working at a Hotel for 12 years.Hey,got to pay those doc's.Good Luck and God Bless!
As another RA patient who is trying to keep from poisoning myself with meds, I have to caution you to find out where the ingredients come from in your suppliments and how they are tested. I take Glucosamine w/o the chondrotin and it works fine for my range of motion problems. That along with Omega 3's, liver de-tox ( I am on methatrexate), folic acid, b complex,c and e. AND I know they are all FDA grade tested because they are Shaklee.
I had meniscus surgery on 5/06 and still had consistent pain in left knew. Dr. suggested synvic shots and I had them in 12/6 and have never felt better. They did not hurt either. I would definately do them again, even if they hurt as much as people say.
I have recently started taking Arthaffect dietary supplement for my beginning arthritis. It is in powder form and contains 7 g of hydoloyzed collagen, 250 mg of d-glocosamine sulfate, Bioperine 5 g and a arthaffect blend 988 mg. (30 various herbs). Has anybody else taken this supplement? It is a Reliv product.
I FINISH INTERFERFON TREATMENT AND WHILE ON IT I DEVELOPED RA. My ra doc said all the treatments he has can bring back the hep c. He said that their is nothing he can help me with now. Who do i see now for pain and the tests needed to keep up with this? I had only seen this doctor twice.I am not able to preform at work and its affecting my employment.
I'll be getting my synvisc shots in a couple days. I get one shot on each knee for three weeks and its usually good for about a year to 15 months. I've had OA for years. I take celebrex 200 mg once a day and used to take bextra and would again if I could get it. I had my cartiledges removed in both knees in 1975 and that cause me to get OA. I usually have to also get a pain blocker shot in my back to relieve that pain and one in my hand. I 've tried glucosamine and chondroitin and that was useless for me. This will be my third time to get the injections. They are expensive, about $600. a shot but they help me.
Has anyone heard of using Orthovisc injection for joint pain in the hip? (not the knee - as usually prescribed) ??
Such has been prescribed for my wife - And I need to know if that is an appropriate treatment?
I will totally disagree with you on the Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM thing. I do not have BONE ON BONE hip problems, but I do not have any synovial fluid left in the joint and the cartilage is badly damaged. One ortho doctor want to treat my hip pain with these 'SHOTS'. I said I would get back to him.
Sorry I try most all natural treatment first before getting drastic.
I started using the GC+MSM, in about 2 weeks I didn't have anymore pain in my hip. Now mind you, it was not serious 'can't stand it' kind of pain, it was more annoying pain but I know eventually it would get worse.
When I forget or stop taking it for a couple of weeks the pain came back. I went on a business trip for two weeks and left it behind. I noticed right away.
So maybe in really horrible cases it won't work, but I wanted to find something that would help before I became a HORRIBLE case.
Dear Dr. You appear to be a young healthy doctor. I would like to suggest you might increase your knowledge by confering with a world renowned cancer surgeon (Dr. Armod Tootla). Simply ask about his knees. Not difficult. However you really should continue your education in nutrition. Your comments contradict themselves. Either there are some good supplements or there are not. I would love to see you clarify your position. (after real research)
Well i agree with you i have been through it all and no luck. I am only 43 and suffer with RA,Diabetes,chrones. I am about to give up on all treatments. I was taking this natrual stuff like butter. I dont know if it really works or not. I have been on all the chemo drugs and was fixing to start the new called Orencia. What is your thought on that drug.
Thanks
Tallie
Dr. M, you are just too full of yourself.
I am 44 and in good health overall. I had nagging pains in my left shoulder and upper back for years due to an injury. My Dr. shrugged it off except for initially prescibing Tylenol 600mg which did help but only temporarily and has potentialy big side effects on the GI.
I injured my knee playing basketball and it still ached a few years afterwards. I decided to give G&C a try.
It didn't help my knee but it solved that nagging back shoulder ache in a matter of days. The chronic pain is gone. The effect was direct and immediate.
Now my knee pain has actually gone away, it might not be directly related to the G&C tabs I eat but, I'm betting it is.
I am so happy it worked, that stuff is great and I don't mind paying good money for it. I want the people who producue it to make money, they helped me.
My Dr. and the drug companies did not help me.
I'm not a Dr. hater or pharma basher but I don't think they always have a patients best interest at heart.
Dr. K, you are just too full of yourself.
I am 44 and in good health overall. I had nagging pains in my left shoulder and upper back for years due to an injury. My Dr. shrugged it off except for initially prescibing Tylenol 600mg which did help but only temporarily and has potentialy big side effects on the GI.
I injured my knee playing basketball and it still ached a few years afterwards. I decided to give G&C a try.
It didn't help my knee but it solved that nagging back shoulder ache in a matter of days. The chronic pain is gone. The effect was direct and immediate.
Now my knee pain has actually gone away, it might not be directly related to the G&C tabs I eat but, I'm betting it is.
I am so happy it worked, that stuff is great and I don't mind paying good money for it. I want the people who producue it to make money, they helped me.
My Dr. and the drug companies did not help me.
I'm not a Dr. hater or pharma basher but I don't think they always have a patients best interest at heart.
Has anyone ever experienced surgery on the navicular to shave down a bump from a fracture sustained 7 months ago that is still experiencing significant residual pain? My pediatrist says it is a 45 minute out patient surgery and the tendons are cut in order to be able to shave the bone down and then reattached with screws or he referred to them as anchors. If anyone could let me know or let me know where I can research more that would be great.
I began taking a combination of glucosamine and chondroitan about 5-6 years ago, when I met a former Olympic downhill skier after a day of skiing in Tahoe who recommended it and informed me that the medical staff for the U.S. Olympic Ski Team advise the use of the supplements in combination. At the time, I was 48 and a light runner (3-4 miles occasionally), but experienced post-run pain and swelling in my left knee after any run. Today, I'm 53 and I run 7.3 miles every other day and experience no post-run pain or swelling. In all fairness, I also dropped 20 lbs. due to elevated activity. What worked? I can't say for certain, perhaps both, but I would not rule out the possible benefits of including glucosamine and chondroitan, along with other necessary vitamins and minerals, a balanced diet, and regular exercise in preventing degenerative joint disease.
I'm sorry that so many of you have had trouble with G&C. But I can tell you all from personal experience, that it DOES work!! Over four years ago, I had had a lot of pain in my knees - even after sitting for only 15-20 min, my knees ached when I stood up. A friend suggested using G&C - now I take 1000 mg's each day, and I have NO pain whatsoever in my knees.
And regarding SynVisc, my mother has had osteo-arthritis for many years, and has no cartilage in either knee any more. She had the injections in June '06 - within a week or two after the final injection, she had no pain in either knee, for about 9 mos. - which is exactly theamount of time we were told it would last; and just now, in Mar, '07, she is going back for new injection treatment. It has helped her tremendously, especially since other health conditions prevent her from having knee replacements.
The upshot of this is: it is most certainly true that not ALL treatments work the same for EVERY person. But "Dr. K" is simply a stupid alarmist for trying to convince everyone that ONLY HIS treatment is the right one. He is "throwing the baby out with the bath water". I would venture to say that he is just as much of a money-hungry jerk as he accuses the pharmaceutical companies of being.
Personally, I feel that whatever works for you and does not cause you to have side effects, then continue with it. We all are different. What works for one person, even my sister, will not work for me. Everyones chemistry is different. Just like colognes, they smell different on diffent people. I believe in the supplements and will always take those over meds anyday if I can. There are a couple of meds including Tylenol that I feel is safe. I take Flaxseed Oil, Calcium capsules and eat lots of vegatables and have started drinking the Acai juice. Try different things for several months and just see what works best for your body. I am 67 and my doctor says I am healthy as a horse. My stepmother is going on 102 in Oct. and she has never even heard of Tylenol. She takes 1 Silver Centrum a day, and several Tums, she thinks it is candy, and
that is all. She says I feel better than I have ever felt She has dementia, but does not even use a walker. Actually walks better than me. God Bless!
Wow...amazing all the opinions here. But what is also amazing is that this is proof that Joint Supplements to work, FOR SOME FOLKS. Bottom line is different things work for different people. Personally for Me, Just taking 1 Cosamin DS has worked wonders. I am a runner and am now able to run pain free again. Even when I was on Cholesterol Medication, Cosamin DS alleviated the side effects of muscle and joint pains that the Cholesterol gave me. I am now off of Cholesterol medication and I feel even better! My suggestion is to simply take what all Medical Doctors say, with a big grain of salt, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE PUSHING MEDICATION(LEGAL DRUGS), AND SURGERY!!
It has been my experience that there is a difference in results between brands of C.G. I used Osteo Bi-flex. In about 6 weeks (like the package said), the pain in my finger joints and shoulders disappeared. I hated the high price they were charging so I switched to a grocery store generic. In about two months my fingers and shoulders went back to way they were (pain and soreness). I switched back to Osteo Bi-Flex and after 6 weeks of daily dosage the pain went away again.
I haven't tried the other major brands, and would like to see if the same thing happens again. I think there's something to this. Its not my imagination.
I have had very good luck with the SynVics shots. The first group last about a yr the second group about 6 mo. and the 3rd about only a few months and then I had both knees replaced. Not both at once, I had one done at a time which I highly recomend. The shot does not hurt if the Dr. is good at giving shots in the knee.
MY SISTER HAS VERY BAD KNEES AND WAS TOLD SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE KNEE REPLACEMENT BECAUSE OF HER CANCER WHICH IS IN REMISSION
ANY INFO ON THAT???
This doctor should be ashamed of himself. He's clearly uneducated about nutritional supplements and natural healing. There are many studies that show that glucosamine not only helps with stiffness and pain, but that it rebuilds cartilage, unlike NSAIDS which DESTROY cartilage. No doubt the "good" doctor is probably an orthopedic surgeon who makes a ton of money recommending surgery rather than natural healing.
As for the folks who have been on cholestrol medication and are still in pain -- that could be because the statin drugs lower coenzyme Q10 levels (which you can buy in a supplement!) and are ESSENTIAL for health.
Darryl,
Sorry, but we will delete comments which advertise products.
Truth really does matter. Supplements first and pharmaceuticals second with minimum use! HMOs need to send their patients to nutritionists first and refer them to primary care physician if they can't find a cause. Amino acid test much prefered to blood level check of particular pharmaceutical in my blood.
After all, pharmaceuticals induce nutritional deficiencies which if not properly balance with nutrients at right time of day can lead to disasters(side effects).
My doctor is absolutely ignorant about nutrition. Send the doctors back to school! Smiles.
it does work period. will it help with bone on bone? NO but it works to help manage the pain and keep the joint longer!!! clearly, you dont have joint pain or you would know. JB
I recently finished the three synvisc injections. I was very hopeful, but now my knee and my ankle are swelling up quite a bit. Is this normal? I don't want to run to the doctor because I fought so hard for the insurance to cover this that he might just think I am a big whiner. Anyone? Help? Thank you.
Spoken like a doctor who doesn't experience joint pain. Well I do and I thank God for the creators of glucosamine. I had pain in my knees, ankles and shoulder. Within a week of taking the glucosamine ALL my pain went away. I was quite surprised. It doesn't claim to cure arthritis and it probably doesn't help everyone.
Since the product worked for me I have a hard time excepting your "expert" status on the supplement glucosamine.
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Thank you!
Hi! I'm 15, soon to turn 16, and I've been cracking my joints(mostly knuckles and neck) ever since I was about 10 or 11...maybe even earlier. I have to be honest...I was stupid, because everyone told me not to crack my joints, but I did it anyway, and I've been doing it ever since. I've seriously tried to quit, but it's difficult...if I go for a long time without cracking a joint, it'll eventually crack by itself if i as much as move it(especially when I wake up in the morning). I've been in martial arts for a couple of years now, and as many would know it's very demanding of your body. I have to punch, kick, flip, do pushups/other excercises, etc. I've also been working out and taking protein shakes, and recently I've been condsidering taking joint/cartilage repair supplements. My joints have started to ache a bit more as I've gotten older, and it's starting to worry me...I'm wondering if it's normal, or if cracking my joints has some seriously bad side-affects. I can crack my neck, back, jaw, knuckles, wrists, elbows, toes, knees, hips, and even my sternum(chestbone). I would love to hear some advice, anything at all! If anything, I just want to know the facts...anything that's true and can possibly help me! And thank you for reading my comment! If anyone else is also worried about the same thing as me, I hope you also find the answers you're looking for! =)
How much glucosamine should you give to a 12 year old Siberian Husky who limps around when she used to run? She weighs about 60 pounds.
I just started the Synvisc regimen. Perhaps if I had read your blog post first, I wouldn't have started. Here's my description of the experience: http://without-warning.blogspot.com.
does creatine and glutamine help in muscle growth?
Hi everyone: I have been taking a combination of G/C/msm for several years and it helps me, especially my knees and hips and I an a 67 year old male. I also take fish oil for omega 3 supplament. Those people taking cumadin need to be careful of taking glucosamin supplaments.
living in ca need to get a parmacy that can sell dilaudid for a breast cancer patiennt not hyromorphonne????????????
i was given this medicine in the er by i v and it relieved my 10 scale spine pain i have spinal stenosis. i dont know if the reason i felt ill because i only had breakfast and a sandwich but after i ate at the hospital i vomited stomach mucus.im home now and feel dizzy and illish.ill let you know how i feel tomorrow when i get up
its me from last night im my opinion is above this one..i was in the er last night today im very sick throwing up have a fever and my daughter told me i look very pale.i dont feel good at all my head hurts behind my eyes and i thought blood was going to gush out of my nose i had a severe pressure sensation in my nose when i woke up.so i pinched it until it stopped then i got up.i dont think im a canidate for this medicine. it worked a miracle last night and today i cant stop vomiting every thing ive eaten since i woke this morning at 5 ive been crying vomiting and have a massive headache behind my eyes and i also have shooting pain in my brain on the left side it comes and goes.
To inform you of my condition... the "so called " surgeon who specialized in ankle and foot, messed me completely up!! Not only did he place 1 of the screws into my joint, but now I need 2 MORE surguries to fix this mess!!! While naturul remedies may not fix the pain...ongoing pain deserves a 2nd and 3rd opinion!!!
Who is making the big $ here? I've been active and pain free for many years because of activity and plenty of gluco/msm. A 750lb leg press for reps and 405deadlift at 62 years of age. Who funds the naysaying studies for the rich doctors? The drug industry of course! Check the stock market and see how many of the supplement mfgs. are in the Fortune 500 and then scroll up and see how many of the drug companies are. No surprise here. Bad thing is the doctors are afraid to speak up!
I have to admit I wouldn't say I'm suffering from sever arthritis, but I will say that the knee pain I'd been experiencing for months was significantly reduced when I started using Glucosomine and Chondroitin. Being a Computer Scientist I'm extremely skeptical about most things, but for me the proof was in the use. So you can say what you'd like about it, but its worked for me. Picking it up at Costco also makes it extremely cheap to purchase. I was thrilled to see that something actuallu did what it was supposed to. Here's to suppliments that work!
Hey Dr.K, supplements do work for many people,this is a fact.There are products and remedies that have no negative side affects and absolutey work.There is documentation verifying these facts.The pharmaceutical companies whose profits are adversely affected by people having access to this information do not want you to know the truth. Governments bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical medical cartels around the world, do not want you to know the truth about these effective non-drug ways to prevent and treat disease. Medical scientists around the world concur that most disease is caused by nutritional deficiencies. The drug companies have lobbied governments around the world to pass laws which state that only a drug or approved medical device can prevent,treat and cure disease. How outrageous. The horrible disease scurvy is simply a vitamin c deficency or the disease osteoporosis is a calcium deficiency. To say that supplements don't work for people is foolish. After reading what people had to say since you posted your opinion it is obvious that supplements do work...... but hey, im not a doctor.
Regarding Gluc.,Chond.
I have zero doubt that it has been really helping me. Unfortunetly I had to stop taking it because of stomach problems. I am a 28 year old with knee and shoulder problems. The best evidence has been clicking a mouse. When Im taking the med, it doesnt hurt, a few days after I stopped taking it, my shoulder is flaring up again. I need to start taking something else. Help. j_sen21@hotmail.com
Well who do Dr. K work for? I know everyone has a opinion but under the correct "Doctor" supplements will work. See most people only use one type for one pain and another for a different pain but forget sometimes it takes a couple more supplements to get those pills working. For example you might need to take a high dose of vitamine C or some other supp to get the glucosamine to work correctly. That is why you need to find a "Doctor" who uses both type of Medical care, prescription and supplements. Just do not go for the "HYPE" one thing cure all elements without doctor approval.
I have 3 types of arthritis, have had numerous injuries (lifting, falling), a mishap in a Chiropractic adjustment, and the two options for relief were physical therapy and naproxene or ibupropen (in larger than normal doses). My search for relief began with employment at GNC. I started taking Glosamine/Chrondroitin, 50 B-complex, Vitamin C and selenium, and gelatin (unflavored). This was to provide my body with the elements it needed to repair itself. It has been a long and painful journey (at times excruciating, especially when bone was rubbing bone - no cartlage/no cushion). I can now walk, sit, stand without screaming. I live with chronic pain, but at least now it is tolerable. Yoga is like a pain pill (daily stretches), and any exercise is better than none. The muscle spasms can sometimes be immobilizing, but rest, ointments and yoga keep me mobile. These supplements did not cure my problem, but they did help make my symptoms tolerable.
The National Institutes of Health provides summaries of actual scientific studies that demonstrate a benefit from these supplements, notably Glucosamine and Chondroitin.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-glucosamine.html
The National Institutes of Health just completed a $14 million Glucosamine Arthritis Intervention Trial (G.A.I.T.) which showed that Glucosamine and Chondroitin helped improve joint health for people with moderate-to-severe problems. A recent European government-funded study (G.U.I.D.E.) also showed Glucosamine is effective for joint problems.
My name is Alison, and I was diagnosed with psoriasis when i was about three. Literally everyday since i was about seven, my legs have hurt in a deep, achey way. My nails were affected by my psoriasis when i was around eight or nine, and the first knuckes of those fingers began to ache and swell when i was about ten. When i was 15, i finally saw a juvinille rhumetologist and was diagnosed with Psoriatic Arthritis. They had me on piroxicam and plaquenil, but i have since stopped taking the plaquenil, as it made my skin condition drastically worse. It sort of depresses me to think that, here i am, just shy of 18, taking generic Feldene for arthritis. I've been looking for supplements that will delay carteledge breakdown, as i am so young, and will clearly have arthritis for some time. I found this insight to be both helpful and clear-cut. I hate having to try to guess whether the writer is for or against the medication. Thank you for your blunt honesty.
My first experience with G and C was when a friend of mine started feeding a supplament to her great dane. I watched an amazing transformation in the dogs ability to rise from sleeping, walk/run, go up and down stairs, and general ability to get around. I'm pretty sure the dog had no idea that it was receiving a supplemant so it was not a placebo effect. Several years later my dog starting to show arthritic signs. He was stiff, had a hard time getting up, could not jump up on the couch etc. I started him on G. C. and after about a month I started to see big improvements in his mobility. I now take supplements myself and have noticed a decrease in stiffness and pain in my joints. I am a believer. I say do what works for you. Try it for at least a month. If the supplements work for you, take them!
Balderdash! My husband has been taking glucosamine/chondroitin for over two years, and has obtained miraculous results! On those occasions when he has run out, there is a noticeable difference. So, this isn't prescription stuff that some drug company is making hundreds on a month's supply, so the establishment says it doesn't work. We KNOW IT WORKS!!
Say what you want, I am 43 and the Synvics injections have been a miracle for me. I would be the poster child for it for free if asked! My knee was throbbing at night just lying in bed, could hardly walk with out sever pain. Tried the injections and was told that it does not work for all. It did for me. Don’t get me wrong, I cant run or jog, but quality of life while I wait for research instead of Black and Decker has drastically increased. Before you say no, try it. The Glucosamine pills did nothing for me, but raise my blood pressure.
It has been established by the Health sciences institute in NY USA that CHONDROITIN is carcenogenic. rogermthws@yahoo.co.uk
The Environmental and Health Sciences Institute of NY has not published any articles about possible carcinogenic properties of chondroitin.
http://www.eohsi.rutgers.edu/
Further searching reveals that a large toxicology study was performed and found it to be safe at the article titled "Risk assessment for glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate" in the journal "Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology"
Volume 47, Issue 1, February 2007, Pages 78-83..."The OSL risk assessment method indicates that the evidence strongly supports safety at intakes up to 2000 mg/d for glucosamine, and 1200 mg/d for chondroitin sulfate"
I have been using Glucosamine for two years and don't have half the problems I used to. Maybe it is one of those tings that only works for some people. I also take potassium for my restlesslegs and that works great too.
Due to the tremendous influence that any physician has, I think it is very important that the physician put his advice in context. I am 28 years old and have been active all my life. I do not have arthritis or other ailments but after a car accident and because I am so active (African dance and strength training) my joints work really hard. I recently began taking a glucosamine chondroitin msm mix in pill form and I already feel a difference in the flexibility of my joints. While the supplement may not help someone who already has advanced joint disease, it may be helpful for those who are in the early stage or want to prevent the disease. If you have arthritis, suggest to your younger family members to take prevention measures such as supplementation and stretching to improve or maintain joint health.
I am 70 with both hips replaced and this winter had a major flare-up of what the rheumatologist thinks is osteo arthritis. I have it in my back, lower back severely and elsewhere so I've spent many years on and off taking NSAIDS which I recently found out, led to diminished kidney function. Now that I need them more than ever, I cannot take them because of it. I take Tylenol Arthritis and Ultram which do very little to ease the pain. Anybody have any suggestions other than spending the remainder of my life in bed?
I'm 70 yrs old, have had osteo arthritis for as long as I can remember just about everywhere in my body. I've taken NSAIDS, had 2 hip replacements and this past winter had a flare up that was the worst I ever had. Since all the years of taking NSAIDS, I now have diminished kidney function (50 to 60%), I can no longer take them and have to take Tylenol Arthritis and Ultram which do very little. Any suggestions out there?
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