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Dr. Ira Kirschenbaum's Mad About Medicine blog has now been retired. We appreciate all the wisdom and support Dr. Kirschenbaum has brought to the WebMD community throughout the years.

Wednesday, December 26, 2007

Doctors & Money: The Last Three Piggies
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Roast Beef, Bankruptcy, and Happiness

To round out our group of Piggies I thought that the last three sort of go together. These three Piggies may very well be at the center of how doctors are actually behaving and may give us all some insight into the future of how we will all get our healthcare in the coming years.

The Beef Eaters: Who really is the Piggy that had roast beef?

While much of the public tries to grasp onto the erroneous idea that all doctors do extraordinarily well financially this is clearly not the case. This I showed in the first Piggy that went to market. Read that. Twice. There are many doctors who do VERY well financially, though. We can define the financial winners (roast beef eaters) into three groups:
  1. The doctors that work their butts off 90 hours a week and run efficient offices.

  2. The doctors who are in specialties that are more involved in cosmetic aspects of medicine who built large factories of delivery of cosmetic care.

  3. The doctors who decided to remove themselves from all insurance plans and charge high rates for their services.
I am sure there are more groups but these represent the majority. Please feel free to blog on some more.

Let's look at these three groups not as much to make value judgments but to see if we can learn something from their effects on health care in general and our own health in particular.

I know many doctors who work very long hours, take a healthy number of health plans to assure diversity in their patient population and commitment to their community, charge reasonable rates for patients in plans they choose not to take and run the best offices they can. Take pictures of these doctors the next time you see them. Put them in the next space capsule so that future generations will know who they were. They are dead and but they don't know it yet. They will not be coming back. Count on seeing a Tyrannosaurus Rex before you see one of these dudes walking down the hall.

The cosmetic doctors and surgeons are neither doctors nor surgeons IF they are practicing their craft for the sake of vanity. Don't even try to convince me that they are doing anything good in the world concerning the self-image of those they operate on. That motivation affects less than 5% of plastic surgeons. The other 95% are hairdressers with licenses to hold scalpels instead of barber shears. They will make a lot of money (and eat a lot of roast beef) because we are a society consumed by youth and beauty. They are not surgeons. They just don't count when discussing medicine. End discussion. I laugh when I hear of a prominent Hollywood Plastic Surgeon. What a joke. Prominent for what? Saving lives - NOT. Helping the health of others - NOT. Making some already fathead actress have even puffier lips. If we define prominence based on that we are surely are on the road to perdition.

There is a third group that is more controversial and represents those most difficult aspects of the money crisis facing doctors. These are doctors who truly do outstanding medicine and surgery and decide to be out of all insurance plans and charge what they feel they should get for their services. This is difficult in that on the one hand I highly support their personal choices to charge what they want for their services. The problem is that, over time, only a select few in the population will be able to afford them. This means the truly best and the brightest will be treating rich people from Beverly Hills and Park Avenue and no one else.

Let's make this clear. The fault is not in the talented doctors that want to charge what they choose to but rather in that we do not have an insurance system that can even pay a pediatrician for a flu vaccine in a timely manner let alone complex brain surgery. This third group is the one that is growing most rapidly.

As general physicians, specialists and surgeons get more in demand it is only natural they will leave the insurance plans that offer below market pay, extra paperwork, and interference with decision making. This group will continue to grow and what will be left you will not want to operate on your worst enemy. It is already happening. If you are a patient in one of these large multi-medical groups that mixes primary care doctors and surgeons and you think that the surgeon in the group is the best one in the community then wake up. Of course not - it is the surgeon that the medical doctors hired to make money from. The better doctors went off to eat roast beef and you are the meat that is left for the surgeons in the multispecialty groups. This would be a good time to eat cake.

This brings us to our fourth Piggy: This Piggy Had None


In the war between insurers and insurers and insurers and more insurers with pharmaceutical and device manufacturers and politicians there will be casualties of this war. Patient health is one. For the purposes of this post the casualty will be good and well-meaning medical practices. They will not have roast beef. They will not even have liverwurst. They will have none. They will go bankrupt. They are the roadkill on the highway of health.

In the last five years alone I have seen countless 1-5 person medical groups close their doors for a variety of reasons. Some because they can't keep up with the expenses. Some because the paperwork and administrative time to practice is just not worth it. Others because the numbers don't add up after the 90th hour of work. Where did they go? Some joined multi-specialty groups for the "protection amongst the many" philosophy. I view this as temporary salvation as they are probably becoming medical refugees in large refugee camps until the insurance companies and politicians create havoc for these groups. Some have taken full-time salary positions for hospitals. This can be a great thing for a forward thinking hospital and a bonus to the physician but it does represent a change in the level of service and personalization. Others, if they are of a certain age, just decided to retire. The great sadness of the death of the smaller groups is that they were the backbone of service and dedication that made American medicine great. Without these groups we are becoming a bit more of an assembly line of medical practice.

So what will make doctors happy when it comes to payment and job dedication? Will we ever see the day when:

This Piggy cried wee, wee, wee all the way home.

Happiness is subjective. In this current medical environment represented by our five Piggies it is hard to determine what the mix should be. If money makes you happy then become a beef-eating plastic surgeon (medical beautician). If what you want is that amazing dedication type job but need to make more money and can't work 80 hours a week then you will surely stay home, work for a private equity firm, and cry wee, wee, wee for the rest of your days but you will not be a Dr. Piggy and the world will be without you as a talented Surgeon Piggy. If you are that good in medicine and charge a retail rate for your surgery you will be driving that great big car but all your patients will be industry fat cats. You will soon ask the question: Did I go into medicine to only treat the top 5% of the economic scale?

What will allow this Piggy to be happy and cry wee, wee, wee all the way home? From what I hear from my colleagues here are some of the major things that doctors would like to see happen in medicine:
  1. When a patient comes to the office for a service and that service gets rendered then the service gets paid. There are no denials by the insurance company for any of their classically lame reasons like- "we want more documentation," or "we are sending the bill for medical review."

  2. There absolutely needs to be serious reform of medical malpractice. I support caps on liability that have been in the State of Illinois for the past few years where the most a person can receive is 500K for an adult case and 1 million for a pediatric case. I also think there needs to be a state medical review that would allow a case to even go to a trial jury.

  3. If we ever do get to a universal insurance model there should be two options of participation: (a) complete joining by the doctor with payment of medical malpractice for those that accept the universal insurance and (b) joining partially where the doctor gets the universal payment but is allowed to charge any amount over that (no payment of this doctor's medical malpractice). This may assure a wide range of providers. Possibly.

  4. Allow doctors to partner with hospitals where hospitals can pick up certain costs like malpractice, office equipment and maybe even central scheduling or supplying of office workers. Currently these kinds of partnerships are illegal.

  5. Dismantle the entire private insurance industry. It is a failed model. Notice how I just sort of snuck that last one in...
It is unlikely that any of the above recommendations will even be remotely followed because generally speaking the free market will determine what happens. Smart Piggies will find out they will not get their value in medicine; they will seek other fields leaving a certain lesser-quality pool behind. That pool will be further diluted because the smartest Piggies left will go for the roast beef medical jobs and careers leaving whomever is left to be your and my doctor. That person will be our doctor for 3-5 years and then starve from the lack of any roast beef at all as they are the Piggies who had none. They will leave for other types of pastures. The few good souls who remain will not cry wee, wee, wee all the way home. They will just be crying during the eulogy service for the death of American medicine.

Oink.

Doctor K.

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Posted by: Doctor K at 4:13 AM

13 Comments:

Anonymous swank said...

Unfortunately, this is a subject that recently hit home for me. My orthopedic surgeon's group closed their doors this month after only about four years in practice. They were a young, talented group of guys, very popular in the area and losing them leaves a big void. My OS will be joining a larger orthopedic group on the other side of the country. It's a very difficult task to start over again when you have found a doctor you trust and have developed a rapport. So now, if/when my new knee needs a revision I have the choice of finding a new doctor locally, flying across country to see the original OS, or flying a couple hours to New York to see Dr. K. Thankfully, my current insurance gives me the choice of seeing doctors in any state. But who knows what kind of insurance I'll have when the time comes.

Traveling to see a specialist is not something I had ever considered before but with doctors now closing doors and moving around it seems that it may become a reality. Settling for the specialist in a multi-medical group is, well, unsettling. I don't have the answers but if we don't find a way to keep dedicated and talented doctors we are all going to suffer for it. I agree that fixing (or eliminating) insurance companies would be a big first step.

My employer recently added a high deductible insurance plan. This is a great plan with low monthly payments and a high deductible. It allows you to open a savings account to pay for the deductible. For people that don't go to the doctor often it's great. They're covered in the event of illness or injury, but if they stay healthy that money can roll over year after year. In the meantime, their doctor gets paid up front for routine office visits.

Dec 26, 2007 9:28:00 AM  
Anonymous mottsapplesauce said...

I would like nothing more than to see the private insurance industry crumble, given that there is an appropriate system to take it's place. I hope someday that when a patient needs treatment, a system will be in place where everybody wins: the provider, the insurance carrier, and most importantly, the patient.

Dec 30, 2007 10:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's possible this series of articles is unnecessarily negative. For example, one can go to a state medical school and get a great education with tuition far, far less than $50,000/year.

I no longer believe insurers are evil, nor that they exist "not to pay" claims. We may notice when they don't pay, but by and large they usually do. And when they don't, most of the time it is probably because whoever bought the insurance didn't pay for that service to be covered.

Finally, Dr. K, maybe you're a bit harsh on your medical colleagues. The one's I know, even the ones who specialize in cosmetic services, seem to have an honest love of helping people.

I've looked at patients' ratings of doctors at the www.DrScore.com website I started. Of the docs with 20 or more ratings, the vast majority are adored by their patients. The median rating is 9.5 out of 10!

The health care system may not be perfect, but it isn't nearly as bad as some want to make it out to be.

Steve Feldman, MD, PhD
Winston-Salem, NC
sfeldman@DrScore.com

Jan 1, 2008 7:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Fried Liver said...

I think it is incredible that someone is worried about whether they have the best doctor and have choices to travel to find that perfect doctor. Today I read that a man was dumped on skid row by a hospital. Where are our priorities?

"Witnesses who came to Olvera's aid said they saw him dragging himself on the ground with hospital papers and documents clenched in his teeth while the driver sat in her van and applied makeup before driving off."

Maybe finding a new doctor really isn't a catastrophe.

Jan 18, 2008 6:46:00 PM  
Anonymous mottsapplesauce said...

Fried Liver,
I'm sure that Swank nor anyone else for that matter has any control over a hospital's actions in dealing with what I'm guessing was indigent individual. Was there more to that story? Like, the other side? The person that was dumped in the street deserves pity. But if you've ever had to rely on a physician for some heavy duty medical care then you should know where Swank is coming from. Swank is not looking for pity. You should direct that priority question to the owners of that hospital, or a private insurance lobbyist, or a congressman or senator.

Jan 19, 2008 6:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Dr. K. said...

I will have to respectfully disagree with my colleague above

Concerning the costs of medical school, there are very few state schools and far more private schools. If we only had state schools we would have even fewer physicians. The average tuition in America, including state colleges in the equation is out of control.

By and large insurers do not pay. While they pay out a lot of claims in raw dollars they systematically and by design rip patients off. I can refer you to the following link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/opinion/18mon1.html
This is an editorial in the NY Times referring to a large investigation by Andrew Cuomo, NY State Attorney General, where they have found that United Healthcare has conspired to manipulate data to pay less than the usual and customary rate. Untied is one of the largest insurers in the country. The data supports the claim that insurers do not appropriately pay.

Concerning colleagues in cosmetic services: Take away the retail fee and have them work for HMO fees and see if they have what you call an “honest love” of what they do. There is nothing wrong with the field, they are just in it for different motivations.

Patients do like their doctors. This was an early post of mine. Even patient who say they hate doctors say they like their doctor- this is no surprise.

If you think the healthcare system is not as bad as people say it is then explain that to 4o million uninsured Americans.

Dr. K.

Feb 19, 2008 4:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Steve Feldman, MD, PhD said...

Thanks for responding to my comment, Dr. K. You may know more cosmetic surgeons personally than I do. The ones I personally know care DEEPLY about their patients. In addition, some do charity work, for example repairing cleft lip defects in "3rd world" countries. Are you sure your assessment of these doctors' motivation is correct, or is it possible that it's another case of "the one I know is good, but all the others must be bad."

Feb 20, 2008 11:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been without medical insurance. I've also had county-supplied medical assistance, medical insurance through a major US employer (a Fortune 10 employer), small business, HMO, AND a "health benefits plan." Here are my experiences for each:

No Insurance: Having no insurance is horrid and still a major fear of mine. I had $5.00 in my pocket and had to choose between eating and buying my medication. I couldn't afford the meds my neurologist had prescribed, so I took myself off those meds and put myself onto a med I could buy on the street. (Couldn't afford to see my doc to have him write a script and was too ashamed to call and tell him I had no money.)

Medical Assistance: Most docs I saw on medical assistance treated me like an idiot or a bum. The exception was my neurologist who was head of the county hospital. He was great and stomped anyone he had complaints about for treating patients differently. It felt really great to have someone stand up for you as a person with honor.

Big Business: No insurance company wants to piss off a major customer, so all I had to say was "Well, I guess I can call Human Resources and have them call you" and the matter was magically solved.

Small Business: Insurance companies don't care if they lose your business. They're not making money on your account anyway.

HMO: It wasn't bad when I went to the large HMO clinics, but the small doctors' offices that took the HMO were terrible. I suppose because they saw their free monthly retainer being used up.

Health Benefits Plan: There is no benefit. They are not "insurance plans" so are not regulated and they can do or say whatever they like and the customer has no one to appeal to. They either should be regulated like insurance companies are or outlawed.

I've seen two "reconstructive surgeons" about a skin deformity on my face and both were morons. When I asked if the skin was healthy enough to heal from an incision, they both basically said "It will either heal or it won't. Let's see." Now that's confidence inspiring.

I grew up seeing "the very best neurologist in the country." Even the neurologist I have today, 30 years later, said he was one of the best at the time. UGH! He was horrid. My current GP is just some shmo at a big clinic who has never been voted anything and he's the best doctor I've ever had.

What makes him great? I can go in for any reason, even just to ask a question, and not get crap for wasting his time with a "nothing issue" or be accused of thinking that I'm dying of some unknown disease. He knows me and knows my bias of doctors and medical opinions and doesn't take that personally so I can also bring in another doctor's notes and say "Now come on, this guy's a jerk. Tell me why I don't believe him" or "This guy's got the communication skills of a worm. What did he say and should I believe it?"

I hope to God I don't lose my insurance, but if I do I think that for the first time in my life I have doctors I can call and ask for help. Given past experience, I don't know if I would call, but I know they would answer the call.

Mar 4, 2008 1:25:00 PM  
Anonymous mottsapplesauce said...

To the Above Anonymous post:
You have seen the insurance industry from many angles, probably more than most who post on this blog. However, I can't form an opinion on all insurance companies based solely on your experiences. It's sad though, reading some of examples. I see that all too often in my line of work. Hold on to that Dr you like so much because having that kind of relationship with your GP will benefit you immensely for future healthcare needs. There are thousands of great insurance plans out there, the problem is we
don't always have access to the one that fits our individual needs.
Maybe that will change next year.

Mar 4, 2008 8:07:00 PM  
Blogger Dan Walter said...

Here's an ehtics story:http://adventuresincardiology.wordpress.com/

Mar 10, 2008 3:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone who lives n this country should have Health Ins. Period. My 20 yr old son passed away because the insurance co. didn't do what needed to be done in time. His Reg. Dr. didn't take him seriously and after having a fainting spell sent him to three Dr.s that didn't accept his Ins. Three days after he ordered a cat scan of his head, which showed nothing, he died in his sleep. Now somebody tell me, His forever grieving mom, why this had to happen? Just 12 more days and he would have been 21, he had so much to give to this world! This family will never forget him! But The Dr.s and Ins. Company's you just don't know what you did, I'm sure i'm not the 1st or the last. People wake up! Look at what your doing! Please!!!

Apr 10, 2008 6:49:00 AM  
Anonymous david said...

First, the amount a doctor is paid, or for that matter is of no concern to anyone! This seems to be a problem with the US in that we are constantly getting into other peoples business.

When I took economics after medical school and all my training, I heard a term called economic profit. That is the amount of money someone makes after all the negatives associated with what they are doing are substracted. At the present time the economic profit and the real profit in the doctor business are at an all time low. Having taught medical school I can see the result. We are making some of the worse doctors you can imagine. So if you are going to get sick do so in the next 5 to 10 years before the real doctors have left this earth. You will not like what is coming.

As to insurance companies, they are absolute scum. There is nothing that can be said about them. What people don't understand is that they are one of the few finicial companies that are not regulated. There are half hearted attempts made at the state level to control these brutes but that is like p--ing in the ocean. It does not work and if a president wanted to be great all he has to do is regulate these people. I checked and they can do that with a signature and dare congress to override.

On malpractice, forget any conventional wisdom on this. A doctor needs a jury of his peers. That is not a jerk off the street but other doctors. Doctors do not protect each other and would be more than willing to give a fair hearing. Asking the local high school graduates who only watch TV daily to judge a complicated medical case is stupid. If the lawyer and client loose, then they should face immediate monetary damages. This would stopped malpractice and at the same time be fair.

As to bumbs being thrown on the street, give me your home address and phone number and I will gladly bring some over that you can care for. Otherwise, shut up.

But actually our sysetem is beyond repair. I can only hope that my region to the South will leave the Union again in my lifetime so I can once again experience freedom.

Aug 26, 2008 4:36:00 PM  
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